I had a very interesting private conversation recently, about what happens to the sinful souls that would be expected to end up in hell. I’m going to share the conversation here because it’s universally relevant:
Honestly, your description of hell as ceasing to exist actually sounds pretty good. I mean what’s so good about existence anyway? If all these souls commit all sorts of evil actions and their only punishment is non existence, that sounds like peace and cessation of suffering, while all the good souls are kept alive to suffer and be tortured. It doesn’t make much sense.
It’s funny that it always does sound good to people, but it’s really not. It must be a matter of semantics, or direct insight.
The death of the soul feels like that worst emotional pain you can feel here, but caused by the direct realisation of how completely you fucked up, committing the worst offence, making the worst choices that resulted in terrible suffering of others, basically knowing that you were the instrument of Satan that made this world a hell. Emotional suffering of this karmic actualisation is unbearable and causes the soul to break apart into multiple components, that either continue to break apart or form a stable remainder that is always of a significantly lower “mass” than the original soul, basically it’s comparable to a degradation from a human-type soul to a cockroach-type soul, and it’s not the end of existence, it’s just the end of continuity of existence. It’s like watching your friends graduate, get married, have successful careers, while you are lobotomised and degraded into being someone’s chicken; losing all the connections you had in a long spiritual lifetime, and hoping to eventually evolve, in untold eons, to where you’ve already been, and where you fucked up.
No, it’s not good. It’s worse than any imaginable kind of loss, with more ability to perceive the extent of it all.
Now that you put it that way, it does sound pretty shitty 🙂 Thanks for clarifying, I was thinking it would feel like taking a general anaesthetic or something, just go blank, but that sounds horrible.
There’s another thing. The way I actually observed it working is different from what I described. I described the internal mechanism – karmaśayas break, it destabilises the karmic structure, it loses cohesion and breaks apart. From this description, one would expect a soul to suffer from some kind of agony of conscience that eventually kills it. I never saw anything like that happen. What does happen, in my experience, is that the worst sinners have absolutely no problems with conscience. Especially after they discarnate, they feel completely blissed out, living their best life, and sin, that’s a formality, they are never bothered with something that would reduce their personal happiness (which is probably why they happened to be such terrible humans). Also, Sanat Kumar is an excellent example, because he did absolutely horrible things for a very long time, and he had absolutely no issues with conscience or karmaśayas decaying naturally. So, what kills them isn’t some internal physics of karma, but a result of an external judgment. In 100% of perceived cases, an authorised judge evaluated them and made a verdict which was instantly actualised. Apparently, a lot about karma is very vague until someone looks at it and makes a determination, basically opening the Schroedinger cat’s box. Once the verdict has been made, everything is instant, or almost instant; it happens so quickly that my human brain is really an obstacle in perceiving things that take place so quickly. One moment, you have an evil soul that’s completely blissed out in its self-absorption because it’s now in the astral plane and everything is wonderful, then the verdict is made, and instantly that soul no longer exists, but when I seek out remainders, there usually is something, much smaller, a vague sense of existence, and it’s a painful one, some kind of an agony and deep humiliation and a nasty environment, because apparently conscience and realisation of sin works much better once judgment of God is passed. I feel there is much more to it than that, though. When I try to slow memories down and take a very careful look at it, it seems that the verdict closes the horizon of perception and time, which normally seems to leave things open and undetermined; this verdict creates determination of karmic consequence, which matures and actualises instantly, unlike what happens with encapsulated trauma (aka “larva”), which is wholly dependent on your subjective perception. In this case, it’s about objective judgment of action and its transformation from undetermined into determined form, similar to how the wave function collapses from probability into certainty at the time of detection. When karma becomes determined and actualises, I think only then does my description of what happens become relevant – the cohesive forces that bind soul-particles into soul are overpowered by the repulsive forces, similar to what happens in an explosion, and only if a part of the soul is unaffected by the verdict, ie. not sinful, does it continue existence in some way, but it doesn’t look like a happy kind of existence, more like a nightmarish hell, where one is incredibly diminished, cast out of heaven, and feels spiritual pain for probably all kinds of reasons – remorse (because that part of the soul is healthy enough to actually have conscience that would hurt when showed one’s sinfulness), loss, and so on. So, unlike what the religions imagine, where a soul remains whole but is cast into hell, either eternally or temporarily, it seems that the soul first “explodes” and all of its “fatally unhealthy” parts are completely disintegrated to kalapa level, and only parts that are healthy enough to retain cohesion survive the event, but it’s not a happy kind of survival, because the context of their existence was some kind of a hellish nightmare in every instance I perceived.
It is the worst possible judgment for an evil soul. But there are plenty of souls who are somewhere in between, what other judgments are there? What else can happen to the soul after death?
This is something that is very hard for me to answer, because I have fragmented experience of the "other side", and theoretical understanding can go only so far, evidenced by the fact that I was surprised in the past.
This is why I was particularly interested in the extremes, because they define the limits of my understanding: what happens to the worst souls, what happens to the best ones, how much does which parameter influence one's outcome, etc.
The most interesting question is "what is a normal soul"? I don't actually know, because normal is usually defined as statistical grouping around the median, which means that the largest statistical volume of souls should be classified as "normal", while those on the margins of the graph should be seen as anomalous. I don't think this perception is warranted, because I suspect the statistical data would be highly skewed by the population growth since the invention of the Haber-Bosch system of producing artificial fertilizers, and diesel-powered agriculture in general. Basically, if you grow the population from 1BN in the beginning of the 19th century, double it by 1927, then double it again by 1974, and again by 2024, you either had a very large pool of human-type souls somewhere else, or you are filling the bodies with unqualified entities. I would suspect the latter is responsible for most of the answer, although I do believe that a pool of souls of considerable size did in fact exist somewhere in the astral plane, and used the opportunity that presented itself since the agricultural revolution, but it was exhausted around the first doubling of the population size. This would mean that out of 8 billion humans, around 2 billions would meet the definition of pre-1800 "normal", and I'm actually being optimistic. This would place 6 BN people of today's population outside of the "normal", but this analysis doesn't say what their actual nature might be. I would suspect some would be animal-type souls that previously didn't meet the requirements for human incarnation due to scarcity and value of human bodies, and some might be "blanks", bodies that create a cloud of prana and astral by functioning, but the sophisticated spiritual entity known as soul is absent.
Let's ignore those, and concentrate on beings with actual souls, either human or superhuman in nature. Let's say that the superhuman souls, you may call them "angelic", start with blue vajra. Everything below that, and above the rudimentary animal souls, is in the human range.
Depending on what they did here, their destiny is in the range from destruction to rehabilitation and initiation into vajra due to their experiences on Earth, but insufficient conditions for an actual initiation. I would expect most to undergo some form of rehabilitation; essentially, be healed from the terrible experiences in this place and the damage they incurred, and have things explained to them. After that, it depends, I guess.
I know, what I wrote is too general to be of much use or comfort; however, I dare not say more, because I'm not actually sure what the big picture is.
I was pretty surprised, some 25 years ago, when I figured out that "the guys up there" are not actually interested in saving everyone. Rather, their goal was to end some sort of a loop souls were using to get another chance; "I didn't experience thing x here so I couldn't actually decide", where thing x was usually some super pure form of God that would make them choose it and reject everything else, supposedly, but they somehow managed to find flaws in every x they encountered, and, obviously, the "angels/gods" knew what the game was and it was obviously something that was going on for an incredibly long time and needed to be terminated, and that usually happened when they faced me, tried to find some flaw and judgment would be instantly passed against them. The context I picked up from those events was clear, but confusing, because it revealed that the world was not what I thought it was. I thought it was about spiritual evolution, but that's not exactly what's going on, at least not in those cases that give the deities in charge the most trouble. This world seems to be full with very old souls that are here to do all kinds of nefarious actions and who evade punishment by the "another chance" trick. The fact that old souls have neither evolved out of this place or lost the chance to incarnate back and continue the mischief was highly troubling. All kinds of bad things are going on here, including but not limited to willing coalitions of Satan and bad souls, and the complexity of the whole mess seems to be too great for me to completely understand.
However, the point is that I knew for quite a while that the guys up there are interested primarily in disentangling this mess and removing souls that seem to be powering it from the circulation, one way or another, and they didn't seem to give much fuck whether such souls are saved or damned. The theory according to which every soul is precious and all kinds of heavenly armies are having their panties in a bunch over saving them is a human invention.
Another surprising element was when I understood that they would rather execute an evil person than fuck around trying to give him the opportunity no. zillion. They are very quick on the guillotine after the determination has been made, and honestly, I grew to understand and accept their point when I happened to be in a position to pass the judgment, and those were all instant. I know many evil people who are constantly rehearsing all kinds of speeches they will make in front of either God or a lord of Karma that is in charge or whomever it happens to be, expecting to deceive, as if God is blind and stupid and wasn't there when they made their satanic choices. God is not stupid, God is not blind, God has absolute memory and the "trial" they expect is not going to happen. What's going to happen is the execution of the sentence. Nobody is going to ask them for their opinion. Only complex cases require a trial, and complexity is being greatly reduced even here, and I guess that has to do with what I'm spending. Complex, open loops, time horizons and all that shit are being closed, and karmic judgments are being made obvious and straightforward; essentially, Schroedinger cat boxes are being opened and uncertainty is collapsed into certainty, and then everything is simple.
You said that the death of the soul is a consequence of a judgment, in 100% of cases. Does this mean that bursting out karmashayas (big enough) is not enough to cause a soul death?
I don't have a sufficient sample to make conclusive statements of that kind. I've seen 3 cases where death was caused by judgment. However, I might have seen one case where death was caused by spiritual trauma of error, but I'm not sure, because I only have fragmented memory. I am absolutely not stating that karmashayas can't destroy you. However, it seems that some people think that they can laugh the entire thing off; basically, they'll put a spin on something and it won't be able to hurt them. Like, it doesn't matter that they killed a saint, because they thought he was a heretic. Or, a Muslim might think he's fine raping a girl, because she was "just a western whore". It doesn't matter what criminals think or feel, it matters what God thinks and feels. I can't underscore this strongly enough. Souls don't exist because they have some inherent right to. They exists because God thinks that it is good. If God sees you and it's not good, you die. God is not some big forgiving parent in the sky. God is the Absolute, the totality of perfection. If you're perceived as filth in His presence, your existence is a problem that will be dealt with very swiftly.
It is very much a case of fuck around->find out. The religions make it very obvious what qualities one should aspire towards, and if you aspired towards the opposite, thinking there's no God, or you're fine regardless because it's in God's nature to forgive, you're fucked. Forgiveness is not God's nature, it's God's prerogative. Justice, on the other hand, is a word for God's interaction with relative things. When God is present, justice is served, and one aspect of justice is understanding, and this can mean understanding of one's situation, and understanding that one has truly repented his sins. Yes, God is merciful, but mostly towards the victims of all kinds of evils. The unrepentant evildoers are damned.
As Jesus said (from memory), "temptations are inevitable in this world, but woe to those because of whom the temptations happen". Basically, if you're an instrument of Satan's designs to make this place a living hell for others, you will share Satan's ultimate fate, and be killed, without mercy or much consideration. I don't know why some people think that Jesus proclaimed universal forgiveness of sin, when half of everything he said is a dire warning.
A disclaimer:
The stable remainder after the process is so small, it might not exist at all. You see, its intensity is far below the threshold of "human soul" and I may in fact be detecting an astral print of sufficient size; essentially, what's left is so weak it falls below my threshold of certainty, the way a photographic sensor might be unable to detect light that falls beneath its threshold of background noise. I'm detecting something, but this "something" is so weak it might be the imprint of last experiences of the soul upon the astral background. Such an imprint would behave like any astral entity, meaning it's somewhat dynamic and interactive, but it's not the same soul anymore. This also matches my perception that it doesn't feel like the same person anymore. In any case, I might be missing some of the complexity of the phenomenon because of my physical limitations.